Relentless Pursuit
Our relentless pursuit after God as He pursues after us.
Relentless Pursuit
The Search for Jesus
When Jonathan "Money Mondo" Soto sat down with us, the room was charged with his fervent belief and the life-altering power of faith. Our dialogue traversed the transformative impact of Jesus, not just as a historical figure but as the bedrock of belief, challenging us to consider the implications of His life and teachings on our own spiritual journeys. Jonathan's heartfelt experiences punctuated our conversation, from the comfort of prayer to the monumental significance of the resurrection, inviting listeners to contemplate the role of a higher power in their lives.
Addressing the moral compass within a godless universe, we waded through the nuances of right, wrong, and the human quest for meaning. Jonathan's perspective sheds light on the innate human longing for love and connection, suggesting that perhaps our emotional depth hints at a grander scheme. The episode also casts a lens on the sometimes serendipitous paths to happiness and love, probing whether these are the handprints of divine intervention or mere happenstance, leaving our listeners to reflect on the possibility of a creator shaping our destinies.
Our final discussion unfurled the complexities of religious traditions, revealing how they can sometimes obscure the essence of spirituality. We shared firsthand experiences ranging from the solemnity of Catholic Mass to the exclusivity of religious practices, examining how such rituals compare to Jesus's inclusive teachings. This episode is an open invitation to seek truth and engage with the divine on a deeply personal level, a call to embrace a faith that transcends rites and embraces the heart. So join us, as we peel back the layers of religion to reveal a simple yet profound message: the life-changing embrace of Jesus's teachings awaits all who seek it.
What's up, rp family, welcome back to another episode of Relentless Pursuit. We're so excited for this week's episode because we got one of my favorite people to walk this race with, and it is brother Jonah.
Speaker 2:What is your middle name again? First of all, my first name is Jonathan.
Speaker 1:Oh, sorry If you're going to say my middle name.
Speaker 2:You got to say Jonathan first.
Speaker 1:Okay, jonathan Armando Armando, jonathan Armando Armando, jonathan Armando. Praise God, I'm going to just start calling you Mondo.
Speaker 2:They call me Money. Mondo actually, who Someone I?
Speaker 1:don't know, ain't nobody calling you Money Mondo? You know what they call you is J Money.
Speaker 2:They do call me J Money. That is a fact.
Speaker 1:That is a fact by you, a fact by you. They call you. Are they that call you j money?
Speaker 2:trust me, they call me, they call me j amen.
Speaker 1:But anyways, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into this conversation, we're gonna talk, be talking about uh, why jesus there? There are so many alternatives out there there buddhism, judaism, um, there's complete athe and there's just so many alternatives. If you were speaking to a non-believer telling them to go, hey, you should come to my church, or you should come see what this is all about, see what's happening what would your response to them, or what would your pitch, in a way, be to these individuals?
Speaker 2:I think that there's a few ways that you can answer that question and on a spiritual level, so to speak, I think that it's so easy to brag on Jesus.
Speaker 2:If you've been walking with Jesus for any amount of time, you have some type of testimony and some type of reason to give God glory. And so oftentimes, on a personal level, for me it's like, hey, like I was really in a rough place even at a young age, and when I really surrendered my life to the Lord, like everything began to change and he began to really transform my life. And I tell people all the time that learning how to seek the Lord and seek Jesus and pray like it literally saved my life. And so that's my first pitch. That's my first pitch, but I got another one that I really love to talk about, and it's this practical end of things. Right, this is Jesus. And I tell really the youth group this all the time that Jesus existed. And so when I say, like I say you believe in Jesus, right, you believe in Jesus. Should I say no, no, you can say yes, okay, yeah, so you believe in Jesus. And then I would ask you when you say you believe in Jesus, what?
Speaker 1:do you mean you believe in Jesus? You're asking me yeah, go ahead and answer. I believe in Jesus because. One, I would be dead literally right now if I didn't. Two, if I didn't believe in Jesus, god, my life would look so different. There would be so many like depression, anxiety, a lot of wrong decisions. I need a guide in my life and I feel like jesus is my guide through life so then, the question really, though, is this is what do you believe about jesus?
Speaker 2:like we use that phrase like yeah, I believe in jesus. What does that mean? I believe in jesus, what do you believe about jesus?
Speaker 1:because are you trying to get me to go theological or scientifical or just like me? Like if I ask you, what do you believe about Jesus? Because are you trying to get me to go theological or scientifical, or just like me.
Speaker 2:Like if I ask you what do you believe about Jesus?
Speaker 1:What is it? What do I believe about Jesus? That he's loving, caring, gracious, holy Sure.
Speaker 2:So my thing is this Like I believe in Jesus, right, and I guess this is really where I'm going Is, when I say I believe in Jesus, I'm not saying I believe that he existed. Yeah, because you believe Jesus existed, right, absolutely, because he did. And so when a Christian says I believe in Jesus, I'm not saying I believe that he existed. What I'm also not saying is I believe that he died because, and I believe he was crucified because that's a historical fact.
Speaker 2:There was a historical man named Jesus who lived. There was a historical man named Jesus who died on a cross by the hands of the Romans. Right, that's a historical fact. And then I'm not even saying this. I'm not even saying that I believe that Jesus resurrected, because that is also a historical fact. And there has been people that have tried to go and dispute that fact that jesus resurrected, because christianity hinges on the resurrection. Yeah, right, and so the thing is, I'm not even saying that I believe that jesus resurrected. To say that I believe that jesus lived, died and resurrected is to say I believe that nate lived because that's true, yeah, and so when christians say I believe in jesus, we're not just saying I believe that he lived because that's true. And so when Christians say I believe in Jesus, we're not just saying I believe that he lived, died and resurrected, because that's a historical fact.
Speaker 2:When I say I believe in Jesus, I'm saying I believe he is God and he is the only one worthy of my praise Right, and so I think that's why it's so important when he's on the practical end of why Jesus? Well, jesus was a man who lived, who said he was going to die and who said he was going to resurrect, and then he did it. And so, for the rest of eternity, we are faced with this fact that this man named Jesus did exactly what he said he was going to do, and we have to now rationalize in our minds what the heck does that mean? And when I say I believe in Jesus, I mean that I obviously believe that he died and resurrected, but I also believe that he is everything and everyone who he says he is Amen.
Speaker 1:I could just listen to you say that over and over again. But okay, so let's say, for example, you're talking to somebody but they're Buddhist and they'll say Jesus, yeah, we know Jesus. Before he was doing any miracles with you guys, he came to Asia and became a Buddha, because Buddha just means enlightened one, Anyways, so he became a Buddha. He did all the things that he needed to do for that. Or if you're talking to somebody that's Jewish and you're talking to them yeah, he's a prophet. He did a lot of things. He was going against the Roman oppression at the time. Or you're talking to a Muslim, yeah, he was a prophet. That was before Muhammad, and during this time he did a lot of works and miracles. Through God, he resurrected a bird. And you're talking to these different people that believe in these different things. What sets Christianity apart, then, from all these other religions who believe in Jesus?
Speaker 2:So I think there's a few things there and for this segment of the conversation at least, I think I want to I'm going to stay away from scripture that sounds backwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:But the reason I say that is because if you don't, if you don't accept scripture as truth, then it doesn't matter what I say about scripture, right, but I think, even on a practical level, there's a certain level that we can rationalize and bring things to logic, that I believe, even in a war of wits and a war of logic, that Jesus still wins. But then I think that there comes a point where it's just you have to encounter Jesus. But before we get there, I think there's a couple of things to say about that. Number one, and there's a video that surfaced on the internet that it's quite old, but I've seen it a few times now and the guy makes a great point. He says essentially, buddhists and Muslims and Hindus and all types of different religions that they all reference Jesus, or they all acknowledge Jesus to some extent, like they all say obviously you're someone who lives, so they all recognize him as a historical figure.
Speaker 2:And then they'll say things like he's a good prophet or he's a good teacher, and they'll say these positive things about Jesus. And so here's the thing If every other belief system that we know recognizes Jesus as someone who is credible and someone who is good, at the very least, good right At the very least a good teacher.
Speaker 2:Then shouldn't we just go to Jesus and see what he is saying and then there's this part of it, right, jesus says some wild stuff Wild, insanely wild things. And I think it might have been lewis or spurgeon that says that you can't say that jesus was just a good teacher, because a person who says the things that jesus said is either a madman, yeah, or he's the savior of the world, like he says he is, and so I think that's one. One way to to go into that too is if they're all recognizing Jesus as some source of credibility, then let's just go to that source and see what he says. And Jesus says that he is the Son of God and the Savior of the world yeah.
Speaker 1:And I feel like in creation, I feel like all creation points back to Jesus. And so if all creation points back to Jesus and all religion points back to Jesus, and so if all creation points back to Jesus and all religion points back to Jesus, then why is there this distance between any other religion and then Jesus? But what do you say like for an atheist who doesn't have a, doesn't believe in God, doesn't believe in a greater power, believes that after they died they're just there or they're nothing? What would you say to them? To get them through the door of okay, so you believe in this almighty God who created the heavens and the earth? Right, but why was Hitler around? Why is there oppression now? Why was slavery there? How do you overcome that hurdle to fight? Get people through the door of saying why is there evil?
Speaker 2:then meet this man named jesus so he can show you right I think there's a few things I don't know how deep you want to get into. Let's get deep, go ahead, because there's there's this battle, right? So if you say that there's no higher power and this is like a fundamental in, in what's the word, not Not theology, but in philosophy, like this is a fundamental debate here right, if there is no higher power beyond us and beyond our understanding, then there is no. I'm gonna say this wrong. Subjective, right? Is it subjective or objective? There's no final moral standard. Sure, right, and this is what I mean by that. I don't know how deep you want to get into this.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:This is what I mean by that. Is it wrong? So is it wrong for me to? I'm going to take it to the extreme here Is it wrong for me to murder you? Absolutely Okay. So you tell me why.
Speaker 1:I could tell you, you could tell me it's God says murder is wrong, and so thou shalt not murder right now.
Speaker 2:Away from the ten commandments, away from god. Why is it wrong for me to murder you? I?
Speaker 1:would say there is no moral or ethics that were created by man and so that's the thing is away from god.
Speaker 2:There's no real. There's no real moral standard. Yeah, there's not because take away god. If's not Because take away God. If you ask an atheist, why is it wrong for me to kill you? Oh, because we're all trying to survive. That's not a wrong reason for me to kill you. Yeah, if there is no God, if there's no higher power and I'm not even talking about Jesus yet, I'm just talking about a higher power If there's no higher power that sets an intrinsic moral standard in each one of us, then it's a free-for-all. Yeah, chaos, it's chaos.
Speaker 1:And life is meaningless.
Speaker 2:Because if, and at our best, at humans' best, attempt to explain creation right, one of the best theories we have is the Big Bang Theory, and so, if that's the best that science has to offer away from God, and then we get into this that nothing comes from nothing, something always has to come from something, and so there has to be a creator. In other words, there always has to be a creator. So let's take the Big Bang, which is still something coming from like. Where did that? Whatever exploded, whatever Right, where?
Speaker 1:did that come from?
Speaker 2:And so we can go on and on about that, but here's the thing. Let's just say it was the Big Bang, right? Then you are, just matter, flying around in space from a happenstance bang that happened at some point in the universe however many millennia ago. Bang that happened at some point in the universe however many millennia ago. And so what does it matter what I do to you, if I murder you, if you die or if nothing? If there is no God and no higher power, then there's also no higher purpose for our lives.
Speaker 2:And so I think, when we're really honest with ourselves, we all understand that we're searching for something deeper, because there is something deeper and when it comes down to and I love the way I heard a pastor say it like this is we'll spend our whole lives there's something beyond us, there's something beyond what we can understand, there's something beyond numbers and science, there's something beyond all that, and really what it is love, right, and God is love, and that's what we're searching for. And the thing is the reason why I don't know about you, but this is this little dark secret of mine here but I love, like romance movies, right, but I love sitting down and watching these and I don't know why, since I was a kid, like whether it's Beauty and the Beast or whether it's a mom, like there's something about that. It does something to my heart, you get a little teardrop coming to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, this is the reason that, though, we're so inclined to things like that is because we are all searching for something, and we'll spend the rest of our lives searching for some type of fulfillment and some type of love.
Speaker 2:You know what? We won't spend the rest of our lives looking for Two plus two equals four. We won't spend the rest of our lives looking for Two plus two equals four. We won't spend the rest of our lives searching for this logic of mathematics and science and things like that. But we will spend the rest of our lives, even if it's quietly within ourselves, searching for something deeper, for something more, for this love and for this fulfillment. And that's because there's something greater on the inside of us, and what that really is is God's size hole that's on the inside of all of us and only he can fill it. And so to atheists, we can logic back and forth all day long, but what I would really say to someone like that is if you really don't believe in the God and higher power and all that stuff, then why does it hurt to just try it? Does it hurt to just come into a church building and be open to the idea of something like that. And so the thing is you got to try Jesus, man Try.
Speaker 1:Jesus, not me, because I throw hands, no, but there's. I heard a pastor say this creation or, I'm sorry, creative plus design equals a higher power, meaning that there is order in the world. We look at photosynthesis. We look at how it rains, how we have gravity. We look at this design Now. We look at the earth and if it was one inch closer to the sun, we would burn up. If it was one inch away from the sun, we would freeze. Then we come into order. We have 365 days where we rotate around the sun. All that is order. We have creation plus design and order, and so we have this. One plus one equals two. Right, this math problem of creation plus design.
Speaker 1:It's almost impossible to not point to somebody that's a designer that creates everything. And if we think about how many things in our life we had, for example, me meeting my wife impossible. We invited this church that I've never been to, never been a part of, never heard, to this worship night and, honestly, the only reason that they were invited was because that another church dropped out, and so then they were able to come. I seen her. She, for some reason, she popped up on my follow, suggested followers on Instagram. I followed her Seen something one day Slid up on her DMs, slid in her DMs. She responded and all this is just like an impossible thing.
Speaker 1:She lives on the East or she lived on the East Valley. I lived on the West Valley, there was miles apart. It's just an impossible thing. She lives on the East or she lived on the East Valley. I lived on the West Valley, there was miles apart. It's just an impossible thing. That had to be God. There would be no. If we just relied on chance throughout our whole life, it would almost be like oh, feeling lucky, today I'm going to go play Powerball and win a million dollars, right, but we rely more on luck and chance than we do god. And so we're at this odds because we're like, if I can control it, then I can control it and I know what I'm gonna do. Right. But if we trust in god or believe in god, or have that belief in god and a greater power, it's almost like an uncertainty, right, because we can't see it with our eyes, we can't feel it with our hands, our senses aren't involved, until you really get into it and then you'll be on the floor crying and everything.
Speaker 2:And I'm someone who thinks in extreme terms and I don't know why that helps me. So maybe this will help someone. But I think about it like this If I spend the rest of my life devoted to Jesus and I serve in church and serve my family and serve my future wife and serve my future children and all the rest, and it turns out to not be true, and at the end of it, where we just disappear into nothingness and whatever, then at the very least I would have lived a good life here on earth.
Speaker 2:But if I don't serve Jesus and I come to the end of it and this is true there's much greater implications there than there is for the former, and so that's a piece of logic I always go back to, and alongside that is also this if the resurrection, like I said, christianity, if you're someone who's just battling with Christianity and like the truth of that and the credibility of that, everything hinges on the resurrection of Jesus.
Speaker 2:And so here's the thing If Christ and Paul says this in a way and I think it's in Romans or Corinthians but if Christ had not lived and had not died and had not resurrected, if that's not true, then nothing else matters. It doesn't matter. It's just we're back to hopelessness and we're just pieces of matter flying around in the universe and nothing really matters. But if Jesus did live and Jesus did die and lay his life down, if Jesus did resurrect, then nothing else matters but that. And the thing is, if you're battling with that, if you're battling with Jesus and church and different things, you just got to open yourself up.
Speaker 2:Because here's the thing is I really believe the Bible says that when you seek truth, you'll find truth. Jesus is truth. When you seek, you'll find. When you knock, it will be open to you, right. When you ask, it will be answered. And I really believe that, in purity of heart, if you're seeking the truth and you'll open yourself up to say Jesus, if you're real, then I need you to show me I think he's a good enough God that I don't know how and I don't know when, but I know that he will do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I heard testimonies because we are just coming out or not. We Muslims are just coming out of Ramadan or they're getting into their final week. Jews are getting ready for Passover, catholics are getting ready Not saying Catholics are anything wrong with them, but anyways they're getting out of Lent. They're getting out of Lent. And so we see this very interesting part of the calendar where everything's almost aligning. And then we have, right in the middle, we have Easter Sunday. Jesus resurrected on this day and it's like everything's trying to point to it without pointing to it directly.
Speaker 1:And so, even if you're one of the people that believe that this past Sunday wasn't Easter and it shouldn't have been this Sunday, I know personally that Easter churches came in. There was people that came in by the hundreds that normally don't go to church, and some of those people got saved. And so what would you say to people that are so argumentative on? You shouldn't have church on a Sunday. The week ends on Saturday. You shouldn't have had Easter this past Sunday. The devil's trying to get you confused with your days. It should have been the first day of Passover. What would you say to people that are combating what we believe in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the thing is you're missing the point. You're missing the point and to me it's go and read Scripture, but don't read Scripture for head knowledge and don't read Scripture to prove your point. Because if you read Scripture for head knowledge, yeah, and don't read Scripture to prove your point, because if you read Scripture for head knowledge, you're going to get it, yeah, and if you read Scripture to prove your point many times, you're just going to prove your point to yourself.
Speaker 1:Seek and you'll find.
Speaker 2:But you have got to read Scripture for the sake of encountering Jesus. And when I read my Bible whether I'm studying for a sermon or whether I'm just reading to read I say Lord, open my eyes, holy Spirit, open my eyes, for it's the spirit of God that leads us to all truth. And here's the thing we can so many times read scripture and miss the point right. And there's people I mean you think of Judas like he walked with Jesus, he walked with the word and he missed the point. And so many times I think that's what happens. And with things like, especially things like tradition, and there's church tradition and there's Christian tradition, there's Catholic tradition, and there's nothing inherently wrong with tradition until it gets in the way of an encounter with Jesus. And I always think too.
Speaker 2:I think that there's two stories in the Bible that I think of, but I think of the Pharisees, and they say it's unlawful to heal on the Sabbath. And he goes is the son of man not Lord, even over the Sabbath? And he says is the Sabbath a day for destruction or a day for life? And really, jesus is the Sabbath right? And so what he's, what's really being communicated there is hey, I've come to give life. And whether you meet at church on a Monday, a Sunday, a Tuesday, a Wednesday, whether it's at 9 am or 9 pm, hey, when you gather for the express purpose of pursuing Jesus, guess what? There's going to be life-giving power there.
Speaker 2:And so it doesn't matter if it's a Saturday, it doesn't matter if it's a Sunday.
Speaker 2:That's not the point. That is not the point. That is not the point. The point is an encounter with Jesus, and I think we forget so often that he came to make it easy. And it's still exclusive, don't get me wrong. It's still exclusive in that Jesus is the way, he is the truth, he is the life. No one gets to the Father except through Jesus. So it's still exclusive. And the word that's crazy. And the word of God is still true. And the word that's crazy. And the word of god is still true. And the word of god remains true and it doesn't change. Yeah, but he came to make it easy in the sense of there's no amount of work that we could ever do to deserve salvation, to earn an encounter with jesus. No, he came to make it easy, he came and he did the work. Yeah, that's why he said it is finished. That's what we celebrated this past sunday.
Speaker 1:Right, he's saying it is finished.
Speaker 2:And so I think so many times we miss the point and we get so caught up in our religion and in our tradition that we say, hey, if you don't come into church dressed a certain way, speak in a certain way, smell in a certain way, if you don't come in the proper way, then you just don't belong here. I was speaking with a friend of mine and he's a devout Catholic and you know what I will say this that I honor his devotion to the word and his devotion to the scriptures and it challenges me to be even more devoted, absolutely. But something we were talking about Catholic mass, and I'm not too familiar with all that stuff, but he was just sharing with me something funny that I thought was funny. He was sharing with me that as I go in because I was talking about visiting his mass and he'd visit my service and just whatever. And he was saying, as you go in, when we go to take communion, make sure you put the X over your chest so you let the priest know that you're not fit to take communion and whatever else yeah, and I was just like man, that's just so backwards to me.
Speaker 2:It's so backwards to me, yeah, because you're once again putting boundaries in the way of people encountering Jesus. You're once again putting boundaries in the way of people encountering Jesus, and communion is one of the special ways that we get to experience the life and the resurrection that was given through us, through that sacrifice. Right, and it's just like another. There's forms of religion and tradition throughout all sectors of the church that make it so hard for people to encounter Jesus. But Jesus used unlearned, untrained, unqualified men to advance his kingdom and all of a sudden we want to put restrictions on who's qualified.
Speaker 1:And do so in the name of holiness, right, and that's what's crazy. Because, yes, I've been in Catholic school. I was in Catholic school for six years. I went to a few masses. I almost converted to Catholicism before I had my initial encounter with Jesus, and the tradition of it is beautiful, the religion of it is crazy, and then, as you learn your word, it's just interesting word. It's just it's interesting. But my point of it is saying we miss the point so much by misinterpreting the word and becoming the Pharisee, if you think about it.
Speaker 1:The apostolic assembly, certain sectors. I remember going to this massive convention, this conference, and there was a bunch of people who looked the part. They had the dresses, they had the suited, suited and booted, they were ready to go. And then there was this one person Hair was blue, half her head was shaved, piercings everywhere, and imagine being that person being in that place that had all these people dressed up, no makeup on full dress, no skin showing, and then you're this person that's wearing jeans, with this hair. You are obviously the black sheep in that group, right? And so you have these eyes staring at you, or you may feel that you have these eyes staring at you. You may feel like you don't fit, then why would I bother to go to church again? Why would I bother to go to church if I don't fit into that group?
Speaker 1:And so we misinterpret because, like, think about it, we think that, like in the Pharisees in the Bible, they believed you could only be saved if you were a Jew. And so we believe you can only be saved if you accept Jesus. I don't care what—we don't care what race you come from, we don't care what denomination you are. As long as you believe in jesus and confess with your mouth and accept him in your heart, then you will be saved. But we have these sectors that have religion that hinder, as you were saying, the the relationship with jesus, and all do it in the name of holiness, do it in the name of oh god, is is setting a higher standard, right. But we don't allow for for new people to come in and feel comfortable, feel warm, feel the love that god gave them originally and implement this. I know your youth group does. You have momentum and you're in momentum right, but how would you implement, like, how would you tear down those walls of religion and build up a sanctuary that is comfortable to somebody that's from the outside world.
Speaker 2:So you know what's funny. First of all, let me read this verse, because it goes along with what we're saying right now, and I love that it says this. It says we are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ, and this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who you are. And so, just to make it extremely clear, christianity is exclusive and that Jesus is the only way. But it's open in the sense that anyone who comes to Jesus is welcome. And what's funny is even in my own mind and my own heart, my own walk with the Lord, I've had to allow myself, to allow the Holy Spirit to kind of level me in a sense. And I remember last year there was the last year without putting anybody on blast, but last year there was a Tuesday night. We gather on Tuesdays. There's a Tuesday night where a couple of and they were newer to the church at the time, but a couple of my guys in the group, they were out and they were at the Drake concert. Now let me say this let's go.
Speaker 2:I'm a person that's crazy. I'm a person who says you don't need to listen to secular music, amen, right. And then people look at you and go, oh, that's religious. And then people look at you and go, oh, that's religious. No, it's. If I want to be someone who glorifies God in everywhere that I am and in every setting. And how could I say that I want my life to glorify God? But as I'm cruising down the street to church, I'm bumping Drake, who's talking about money, sex and drugs, like those two things don't match for me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so something that I said to the youth group several times is I I said, hey, listen, enough with the drake, enough with the j cole. And you know what? I was a big j cole guy. I was never really big on drake, but I was always big on j cole. So I said enough with the drake, enough with the j cole, enough with the taylor, swift, enough with this secular garbage. That's not feeding your spirit right, or feeding your spirit in the wrong way, or it is feeding your spirit in a negative sense, yeah, and. But I remember feeling very strongly about this and I still do, but to the sense of like, when I would hear drake, or they would reference drake or whatever, like it would frustrate me and I would feel this righteous indignation come over me. Yeah, and I just felt like I needed to be the secular music police. Right, yeah, but the thing is this and this. You say how do we? We implement? You know the phrase come as you are right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's this is you welcome them and you love them and then you allow the Holy Spirit to do what he does. That same young man that went to that Drake concert last year and I never talked to him about Drake. Obviously, I said things from the pulpit, but I never talked to him about Drake and I really never mentioned that again. But here we are, maybe a year later, and we're having dinner the other night and we're talking about just the different things that the Lord has been doing in our lives and he says, yeah, man, and he goes. And I was fighting it for a long time he goes, but I'm not listening to Drake anymore. I goes, but but I'm not listening to drake anymore, I'm not listening to music anymore. Hey, and it wasn't me like hanging over his head going, you better not listen.
Speaker 2:No, it's me continuing to love him, encouraging him in the word, encouraging him in prayer and bringing him to the place of prayer, right and and uh, and allowing the holy spirit to do the work. Yeah, and maybe for that person's life, maybe the piercings and the tattoos, maybe those were reminiscent of a time in their lives where Jesus wasn't the focus. But you never know what the Lord can do Absolutely, and so really we do know what the Lord can do, and we just got to allow him to do it. And I think so many times we try to mold people into what we think the perfect Christian is, instead of just allowing the Holy Spirit to do what he does. And man Jesus is just so much better at transforming people than we are, and I think we got to allow him to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure I know we can, because certain times where we I know for personal experience that, when I've tried to quote unquote disciple someone into living in the right way and mirroring for them and being an example for them, but also saying, look, watch me, do this, follow me as I follow christ right, using it in the name of the lord right, we become their idol at times, and there there's that very fine line where we can become their idol, or we can be an example, and we have to be cautious about allowing ourselves to be the example without giving room for the Holy Spirit to restore, to heal, to mend, to elevate, to lift up. And yeah, no, I 100% agree, and that's awesome. That's a crazy testimony, though, of Drake being kicked out of the church.
Speaker 2:Amen. Pray for Drake. Pray for him Come on, guys, we got to be better than that.
Speaker 1:Amen, brother, amen, amen. Thank you, jonas, jonah, jonathan, all of the above, mondo, money, mondo, money, mondo. Thank you for the conversation. It was an amazing time to have you. I know we're going to probably have more conversations like this on the podcast and hopefully your schedule will clear up a little bit more so I can get you on, but I love you I'll be here once a week we only have the podcast going once a week, so I don't know, just take my spot, take my spot, praise god.
Speaker 1:But anyways, thank you guys for joining this week's episode of relentless pursuit. Don't forget to follow, share and subscribe to all our social media platforms and we'll see you next week. See you guys.
