Relentless Pursuit
Our relentless pursuit after God as He pursues after us.
Relentless Pursuit
The Heart of a Servant
Caleb's life stands as a testament to the boundless reach of a servant's heart, and together we explore the ripples of love and humility through every sphere of our existence. From the intimate setting of our homes to the broader expanse of our communities, this episode is a treasure trove of insight into the small yet profound acts of service that knit us closer together. We reflect upon Jesus' humbling act of washing the disciples' feet, an eternal illustration that the spirit of leadership is rooted in the willingness to serve others. Our dialogue promises to kindle within you a passion for service that mirrors Jesus' mission and fortifies friendships and communities alike.
As we draw the curtains on our soul-stirring exchange, we venture into the biblical tales of Jacob, Leah, and Rachel, extracting timeless wisdom about aligning with God's blueprint for our lives. We confront common misconceptions about church finances, while also unearthing the spiritual significance of giving and supporting our spiritual leaders. By sharing poignant personal experiences and scriptural narratives, we underscore the divine mandate to serve those who shepherd us, a practice indispensable for our growth in faith. Embrace service as a cornerstone of your spiritual journey through this episode's rich mosaic of stories and biblical insights.
What's up? Rp family? I'm so excited for a new episode. I have a special guest. Some might say my son. Praise God, I'm just playing. We have Caleb here. What's up, caleb? God bless you guys. How are you bro? Hey man, I honestly have the most craziest memories of you. When we first met, you were the type of person anything you say I'll do, anything we need to do, we'll get done in a matter of moments. It's like a yes, sir, I'll ask questions later, type of thing, and that's such a great thing about you, and so I felt like there was no better topic to discuss than serving.
Speaker 2:Well, before I go any further, I want to thank you because you were the reason that I saw a man of God in you and when we started building our friendship.
Speaker 1:I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:When I saw that, I saw someone I could look up to and obviously, of course, I have my pastors and my close friends, but at that point in time you were my leader that I followed. So I want to honor you in that, because I wouldn't be where I am right now if I didn't have a leader in the beginning amen, oh, praise, god.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm gonna get emotional, but with that being said, from so short little background about me is from the get-go of going to church, you knew how to pick up chairs before you know how to pick up a bible. It was like you serve first and then seek. Second type of mentality. Now we obviously went out of that. We matured in our faith, we matured in our love for God and obviously we seek God in the midst of our service. But at the same time we were ingrained in us that we have to have a servant's mentality.
Speaker 1:And so the first question I wanted to ask you what does it mean to be a servant? What is that? We all know the service. And so the first question I wanted to ask you what does it mean to be a servant? What is that? We all know the service, and we have this negative connotation to it when we relate servant to slave, almost, and saying you're not going to tell me what to do, you're not going to tell me that I must do this or I need to do this because I'm my own boss, this, and that I'm here out of voluntary reasons. But we need to understand that in order to have a heart of a servant. It pushes the or to have a heart of a servant. It pushes the kingdom of God closer to the lost souls that could not have an opportunity to come to God. And so, what does it mean to have a heart of a servant?
Speaker 2:So what it means to have a heart of a servant, in my opinion, is you cannot become a servant, or be a servant in general, if you do not walk in humility.
Speaker 2:I believe with all my heart. A strong revelation that the Lord has given me is that this walk is impossible without humility. And if you try to serve without humility, it's just dead action, it's just cause. We can still do the action, we can still pick up chairs, we can still turn TVs on, we can still do whatever we need to do, but if you're not doing it in humility, in the right posture like the Bible says, seek the kingdom first and his righteousness.
Speaker 2:If we're not seeking that first and we're getting selfish instead of selfless, then we're seeing the fruits from that and the negativity from that and we begin to start thinking, oh, why am I doing this? I could come later. Like these people are showing up right before service, why am I here early? Or these people are leaving immediately. Why am I here late? And those thoughts can get into your head. But then you have to remind yourself why did you start doing it in the first place?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's through the humility.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And there was a scripture when Jesus was talking to, I believe, his disciples. I could be wrong, but he was referring to fasting and he says that the Pharisees they get the reward by being visibly making it known that they're fasting. They're walking and saying I'm tired or I'm hungry, it's because I'm fasting. Their reward was the declaration and the proclamation of their fast, when really our reward in fasting is something internal and behind closed doors.
Speaker 1:The very same thing when it comes to humility and service. And so, in order to have that humility in your service, it's more of understanding that everything that happens behind closed doors doesn't need to be proclaimed, doesn't need to be shouted on the mountaintop. And so, in order to have that humility I want to know your thoughts on this In order to have that humility I want to know your thoughts on this In order to have that humility, you have to remember where you came from and what is a little backstory, or how do you help that strength of humility? I know that I hear people all the time say that if God humbles you, it's the worst experience of your life, which I agree. Never ask for humility from God, say. Say Lord, teach me how to teach myself.
Speaker 1:I don't want you to teach me God, because I'm gonna get knocked on my butt and it's gonna be hard to recover. I need you to teach me how to do it myself. But anyways, how do you? Yeah, exactly so. How do you feed that strength of humility?
Speaker 2:that's a really good question. I believe that the way you feed it is first of all, like we said, we remind ourselves where we came from. No, sorry, not where we came from, where God brought us from, because that's a whole different thing as well. But if we look to where God brought us from, for example, with me, I struggled with. I always thought I was alone. I struggled with anger because I grew up in church, I was raised in church my whole life. But it came to a point where I just started to say I didn't want to be in church. I loved God. So, quote unquote loved God, but I never wanted to be a part of it. I told my mom I was going to get a job on Sundays just to make sure I didn't go to church, amen.
Speaker 2:But it got me to a point where, even when I wasn't even saved, I got me to a point where I, even in, when I wasn't even saved, I got me to a point where I had to understand that I wasn't in the right. I had to humble myself and I had to put my pride down and realize okay, god, you have something better for me. So I'm going to try this. So it all starts with correction. I believe my humility beat me. I want the way I practice humility is correcting myself and to not be easily offended, except criticism. Because if we get offended at someone's words, say, for example, you tell me, I smell, tell me, and I get offended by that, and then it takes away the whole posture of again humility and serving because, don't worry, I have deodorant for you in the back Anyway sorry If we're serving together and one of our pastors tells us oh, help out, nate.
Speaker 2:And in my head, oh, he told me, I smell, because that's what happens. We get so easily offended by words, small things like that, and we have to remind ourselves accept criticism, do not be easily offended, because that's what takes away from human. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amen. I think there is a word that sums up this, I guess this willingness to be corrected, and I think that's accountability. I think allowing yourself to be held accountable to the actions of not only your leader, but also allowing yourself to be accountable to God. And so, yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that, a hundred percent agree. And then offense there's this book called the Bait of Satan. It was the first book I've ever written or written read wrong way.
Speaker 1:Imagine if I wrote the Bait of Satan. Lord knows, I would be right in this place because I'm in the will of God. Praise the Lord, amen. But anyway, the Bait of Satan, it's an amazing book, but it talks about the offenses and it talks about defenses and it talks about the this area of offense. And so I want to know this from you what do you think that offense, how do you think that offense could hinder your service? Because I know, for me, you can almost do it in a bitter way, where you're like I'm going to do this, so you're going to owe me something, or I'm going to do this, even though you did this to me, and do it in a wrong posture or wrong attitude, and then it's almost like you're rejecting a blessing of it. And so how do you protect yourself in that way?
Speaker 2:It's really, I believe, that offense causes division and because of that it takes away the entire posture of serving. Because in the Bible it says that serving is a gift. It's a gift from God. It says we have to accept that. It says we have to practice and desire this greater gift. The Bible says so. If we are not receiving that, then we're still doing the action, but it's just dead. It's dead action Serving without a humble heart, serving without a corrective posture is dead action. It's picking up chairs in pity or in in anger, because you can do all these things. And let me just say this serving is far more than serving at church. Serving is a lifestyle. Serving is how you act to your wife, your husband, your father and father and your mother, your brothers. That's your lifestyle, because, again, it's a gift. It's not saying just at church, no, it's a gift. It's how you walk your daily walk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think one story that I really enjoy reading in the Bible in John 13,. It's when Jesus was washing the feet of his disciples and Peter almost gets like an arrogance about him which a lot of us could have. I wouldn't let you do this for me, I want to do this for you. This is, in a way, false humility. And so Jesus was like no brother, you won't get it now, but I got to show you. And he says in verse seven it says Jesus replied you do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand. I have set an example that you should do as I done for you, and that's in verse 15.
Speaker 1:And so we have to understand that Jesus modeled this for us, that we are supposed to be servants and not be served. Even in the role of a pastor, let's say you are there for the people. As a pastor, you're there for the people, you are there to serve your congregation. And sometimes we get these lines diluted, where we believe that the roles are reversed, that the congregation is there to serve you when really you're no bigger than the people that you lead. If anything, the Bible says that you have to become the least, and so we have to understand and take this posture of humility and understand that we are not greater than anybody.
Speaker 1:That's what they were fighting over at the Last Supper who is the greatest disciple? And then, so that pride crept in and they were all saying I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest. And what happened? They overlooked their Savior that was in front of them. And so we have to come back to the root of everything. And the root of everything, the reason why Jesus was sent in the first place, is because he was here to serve. He was here to serve his children, serve his kingdom, serve and take the weight of sin off of us so that he could cleanse us. And so, in that, how would you develop that heart of?
Speaker 2:service, I believe, because, again, it was natural. So I believe we all have this in a natural sense. We all have a heart to serve. It's now practicing it Because, as in the gift, as if I give you a box and it's a gift. You want to receive it or not, that is up to you. Now, if you want to use it, you have to practice it, you have to develop it. It's like a sport.
Speaker 2:You have to learn and mature in that same thing. Because, again, going back to Jesus, I believe he said doctors did not come to heal the healed, but they came to heal the sick.
Speaker 1:Sure, I can't remember the longitude of that too, but I believe it.
Speaker 2:But I see that as a perspective to the point that, in order to allow to develop that heart of serving, we look back to Jesus. He's always going to be our example in all things. And we can even look at David. Before David was doing anything. David wasn't tending the flock because he wanted to become king. No, david was tending the flock through his obedience to his father and through his heart to serve Same thing with. Jesus, his first miracle performed was serving his mother, because she asked him to turn the water into wine.
Speaker 1:Come on somebody. And so in that, like I just looked up the scripture, by the way, mark 2, 17. It says, on hearing this, jesus said to them it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, anyways, so I just had to clear that up, anyways, anyways.
Speaker 2:So I just had to clear that up, anyways. Yeah, I was paraphrasing so I didn't want to.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong, I liked your version better, but I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, but anyways, yeah. So Jesus modeled this example for us because we are at the end of the day, we are his servants, right? But the Bible also says that almost not only are you just his servants, you're his friends. Because, yeah, I was just about to say that oh, go ahead.
Speaker 2:John 15. Sorry, come on. Somebody says that I no longer call you servants, for servants don't know the plans of their master, but I call you friends. Come on somebody. Yeah, it's in us to have that heart to serve him, because he's above all yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's almost like the beauty of it, because even friends serve friends. And if you think about it in a way, let's say we're best friends I'm not saying we're not. Anyways, my point is, my point is that I'm serving you by being available for your friendship. So that's just one aspect, let alone the yo bro, I just got done with a breakup. I need you. Come, let's have a boy's night. Or, bro, I need your help. I moving from house to house. Hey, come, can you help me? That's me serving you out of a friendship, out of a relationship, because I know you, I'm more tuned to help you, I'm more tuned to serve you, to help you, I'm more tuned to serve you. And so that, I think, is such beautiful in nature, because now not only are we just quote unquote servants, there's no relationship right there but now we have a relationship available where we can do a service out of love. And so what do you think the importance is? To serve out of love.
Speaker 2:If it's not out of love, then it's nothing. And it's just again like if we continually look at things the opposite way. It keeps bringing back to the point that if it's not out of love, it's not out of humility, it's not out of the proper posture and it's dead action. Because if you're doing it in love, you truly see the fruits, you see the benefits, you see the growth. The Bible says that Paul planted the seed of Paul's water, but only God can control the increase. So God is going to control that growth in your heart to serve in your maturity and in your walk with him. If you are doing it the right way. But if you are expecting a reward from it because people like to do that, People like to serve expecting something from it, that's not what we're called to do, that's not serving. That's expecting through action. Yeah, I stuttered with that.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the word is, but just basically just expecting results from it, even though you're doing it out of the kindness of your heart. If you're doing it out of the kindness of your heart, that's when you truly see God move through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a little bit. I want to expand on this. Without the love, humility, your actions are dead For the people that believe serving is a supplement to the things that you used to do. Because, if you think about it, there are and I want to be careful with this, because there are drug addicts, there are people who are in the world. Let's just say that people who are in the world that are supplementing their worldly activities with serving being as a numbing tool to what was.
Speaker 1:Now we have to be really in this serving with the capacity of growing in God, because we are not numbing what was, we are washing what was. We are not trying to cover or distract from who you were previously. We are trying to get you to understand you're a new creature, that your previous life is dead. So we are not in serving. This is not a gimmick, a facade, something that you do in fake, because that part is dead. That part leads you to death, that part leads you to turn around and go back to what was. But the part that leads you to life and this is the way that most Christians should live I shouldn't say most All Christians should live their life is serving, with the understanding that you're growing closer to God and you're trying to expand his kingdom. And one of the last questions Actually, no, we're not almost done yet. Anyways to you, I want to understand who are some servants in the Bible that help you.
Speaker 2:So before we get to that question, I want to expand on what you said a little bit.
Speaker 2:So you said about becoming a new person and about getting into those old habits, getting addicted. So I look at the story of Jacob Jacob, when he's working for rachel okay, he is so obsessed with getting rachel that he neglects leah. After the seven years of work, come on somebody and again he says okay, give me my wife, I want to make love to her. He says he's, okay, hold on, I'm gonna give you leah in replacement work another seven years. See, it keeps saying work. But in my, if I was in that posture, if I was in that position, it seems like I was enslaved to it because, again, I was neglected to my wife, I was neglected to myself and I was so focused on rachel which again wasn't a bad thing, but it was at the same exact time, because he was so addicted to rachel, that he put everything to the side, he put 14 years of his life away just to get her amen.
Speaker 1:Some might say that's an amazing love story. Others might say you're going ahead. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, no 100, although I can't remember which one was first, leah or rachel.
Speaker 2:Leah was the one that he didn't want. But then, this is the revelation, is the fact that if it's from God, it brings peace.
Speaker 1:It brings order.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Leah never caused him to be frustrated. But if you look at it later on, I believe in Genesis 35,.
Speaker 1:if you're going to it.
Speaker 2:Sure, if you're going to it, we're going to figure it out. It says that Rachel made him upset. He made him frustrated, she said because Leah was having kids. And she told him okay, you need to have kids with me or I'm killing myself. And he said that jacob got frustrated with it. And this was before his encounter with god. Come on. So when he had his encounter with god is when, I truly believe, he realized, he humbled himself and he realized rachel was never meant to be my wife. That was my lust for her.
Speaker 1:Watch out.
Speaker 2:Come on somebody. Because when people back then they were buried next to their wives Okay, and Rachel was buried in the wilderness but he says when he tells his children to bury me, he says bury me next to my wife Leah.
Speaker 1:Man of God. I did not know that Praise.
Speaker 2:God, praise the Lord. I got great leaders in front of me that teach me.
Speaker 1:So hold on, I'm trying to figure out now. Now you got me thinking over here. Now I'm trying to figure out. Dude, when Jacob went to go wrestle with God, who did he send first? Because if it's Leah, I'm going to be frustrated that I did not pick that up.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even think about that part actually. Yeah, I'm trying to see, that's what I'm trying to see, because if it's Jacob, then I sense. Go on. The night sins was gone. Go talk about something. No, I'm just kidding anyways, but the thing is that you said that to become a new creation.
Speaker 2:He literally went from jacob to israel yeah, and he was a complete new transformation. So it goes and going back into serving. That's what it is, because we are a new creation and we're not doing it out of our pity. Now again, people in the world and people outside of church. They can still serve each other. That's the beauty of it, because the Bible says the gift is without repentance. So everyone has this gift, but it is up to us to practice it and to grow it. Because I know people no offense to anyone in the church. I know people in the world that serve better than people in the church.
Speaker 1:Watch out. That's not offensive, that's a challenge, if anything, if people in the world are serving better than the church. That's. The thing is that and I know I'm going off on a tangent right here, but the thing is that people complain about the church taking money or getting money. I should say not taking, but at the end of the day, yes, you're working for a paycheck, but they're stealing your service. In a way that's worse, because then not only do they steal your service, but they also are taking back from you when you're going to walmart and you're spending 50 on a thing of eggs. Eggs are expensive, eggs are expensive, I'm just saying. But anyways, my point is that these places, these businesses, are made for money when really they're not returning anything to you as significant as your salvation. They're not returning anything to you as significant as love, peace, joy, kindness, compassion. If anything, you should be giving more to the church because their return is a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:That's the only thing you'll find in the Bible where he says test me in this, hey Shande, because you see in the gospel that they reference to Jonah and he's basically telling us don't test him for signs. But I believe it's Malachi. Don't quote me on it, I'm not or Micah.
Speaker 1:One of the two.
Speaker 2:It says to test me in this, test me in my fantasy.
Speaker 1:Okay, but let me get off of this. I'm over here looking on a rabbit hole and I can't find it, but I'll figure it out later anyways. So in that I want one thing I do believe that giving, tithing and offering is service, service yes, amen in.
Speaker 1:That is service, and I'm not trying to get a whole offering message right now, but at the same time there I do praise god shand, if you want my number, no, I'm just kidding anyways. So in that, there's one story I want to get to before we wrap things up here, and it's the story about elijah and elisha. When elisha, or elijah, threw his cloak over elisha's back and he was pushing the plow in that moment and then all of a sudden he lifted his hands from the plow, killed the ox, and then he followed his leader, which there's a little bit more in between those, but my point is that he exchanged one service that benefited the physical for another service that benefited the spiritual. Now I want you to expand, if you, I want you to expand on that. What is the exchange that's happening when you're serving for a local church, for a local church?
Speaker 2:It's simple when you're doing it unto God, when you're seeking his kingdom first and you're putting your hand on the plow, then God will reward you. God will honor the sacrifice that you're making. For example, when Elisha did those things, when he put his hand on the plow and he began to push, I saw it as a in one of the Gospels. It mentions Jesus telling one of the wanting to become disciples. He tells him, jesus, let me go say goodbye to my family. And he says whoever puts their hands on the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of god. Oh, so you see that elisha was actually moving forward and when he saw this, was it an ox?
Speaker 1:you said it could have been. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was an ox he, he killed it, and then he continues yeah, I believe there was 12 ox oxen, I don't know. Anyways, one of the two I didn't finish college and he anywho praise god I don't know if we should end there.
Speaker 1:I want to continue, so in this. I just want to keep going on this, because I believe that Elisha is an example to serving your leader, because, understanding that and let me rephrase this Elijah was the example of serving God and viewing God or his leader as an extension of God. And viewing God or his leader as an extension of God Because, remember, when he was following Elijah before he died, there was a word that came to him that essentially, you need to follow me and everything. And Elijah told Elisha to stay here, I believe at three different locations.
Speaker 1:And the third location I'm paraphrasing again if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but at the third location is when he separated the Jordan I believe it was the Jordan and he walked across and then, after that, he was engulfed in a chariot of fire, I believe the Bible says, and he was gone, his mantle came down and he got a double, and Elisha got a double portion and did this very same thing back. And in that I think that is an example of how our heart should be towards our leaders, because not only are we serving this man that's in front of us, for example, our pastor, Not only are we serving our pastors, but we're serving God through our pastors and we receive from serving our pastors, not that we're doing it for a double portion, but we receive their impartation and the limit where they go will exceed because we served. And what is your thought on that? How do you?
Speaker 2:I see it as like jonathan and his armor bear, where he tells him wherever you go, I'll go.
Speaker 1:Or like ruth her mother-in-law was her mother I just read about her too the other day. Yeah, I know you're talking about wherever you go, I I'll go. Or like Ruth her mother-in-law, what's her mother-in-law? I just read about her too the other day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Wherever you go, I will go. So when I tell Pastor John, when I tell him because I'm not, because, again, serving needs to come from the right posture, if it's from, oh, why is he on the pulpit? Why is he preaching again? Why, like, okay, I'm going to trust my pastor, just like Elijah trusts Elijah. I'm going to trust my pastor because I'm under him and I'm submitted to his authority in his house, because God has anointed him for that time. The Bible says that he anoints pastors of his own heart. So I need to entrust, first off, god that he entrusted this pastor to tend the flock that I'm currently in, and to trust my pastor in the same way that I know my pastor's praying for me. So I'm going to serve him humbly because I know that he's out for my good just as I know God is out for my good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that there's a thing that you said, and it doesn't matter if you've been in one church for a single day, or a million years I'm probably not going to live that long but my point is that pastor has been placed over you. He is now your shepherd, he is now your covering. It doesn't matter what pastor you listen to on YouTube, it doesn't matter what podcast you listen to, except for Relentless Pursuit, praise God. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding, but it doesn't matter what you listen to or what you intake, they're not your pastor. If you are attended church in our staff, if you are established in a church, you have a covering and you have a pastor that you have to serve, not out of a requirement by man's jurisdiction, but out of a requirement that God has set, because he, your pastor, is an extension of him. And so, with that being said, I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm going to come to a close here. Thank you, caleb, it was an amazing podcast, great conversation. I love talking to you. It's a younger, uglier looking me. I'm just kidding, but praise God. Anyway, thank you guys for joining this week's episode of Relentless Pursuit. Don't forget to follow, share, subscribe to all our social media platforms. We'll see you guys next week.
